Do you have your coffee white or black?

I've had some very interesting exchanges on Facebook recently over words and word usage. Because I have FB friends from many different countries, my profile page is an interesting place to interact with people about language.

Jumpers and all things confusing

For example, my recent post that included jumpers caused a long discussion about what people call various types of long-sleeved garments that you wear over shirts in winter.

I hope I have this right, of course it isn't a comprehensive survey, just what people stated on  my blog. I found within country variations too: for example, an Australian who used the word sweatshirt, but we ended up with:

Australian jumper = US/UK sweatshirt = South African (SA)  = UK pullover?

Australian knitted jumper = US sweater = UK jumper/jersey/woolie

Australian jersey = US/SA/NZ rugby shirt (I think) / long-sleeved polo shirt

US jumper = Australian/UK pinafore

Australian/NZ skivvy = US turtle neck = SA/UK/India/maybe NZ polo neck

And in the US, skivvy = men's underwear, to this Australian household's intense amusement!


Obviously very confusing.


Musical notation

I've also had a FB conversation about Australian/Commonwealth vs US musical note names, which is less confusing, at least there isn't regional variation as there is for clothing.

Bedding terminology
The bedding FB conversation was pretty interesting, though. I wrote about it here.

Do you have your coffee white or black?

As a coffee lover, I'm a little bit behind the times, however. I think it has a little bit to do with the proliferation of the coffee shop business while I've been away from Australia. So I'm not really up with all the different names that they give coffees. A cappuccino has been the safest, but I've learnt in Japan that Cafe au lait (although the pronounciation is a bit different) is good too.

The other day I said to an American that I have my coffee "white" and I got a blank look. Obviously I'd made another cultural blunder. In Australia, at least when I was growing up, we had our coffees "white" or "black", "with" or "without" sugar. Those were the choices. But obviously that isn't the way Americans describe their coffee. Up till now I've assumed the "flat white" that I periodically see in writing, equals a "white coffee", but after Googling it, I'm no longer certain of that. It seems that a "flat white" is closer to the Japanese Cafe au lait that I've been enjoying.

Fun or just frustrating?
As an editor who is Australian and working with an American editor, I end up having these kinds of conversations all the time. It is often fun, but can be confusing or frustrating. I'm sure those working with ESL students are frustrated too. I know that when I was teaching an English Conversation Club for kindergarten mums a couple of years ago I was frustrated at times. The book we were using was American and I often had to say, "I don't know exactly how Americans use this word." or "We don't call it by that name, but I guess Americans do." But I'm not sure whether that was helpful or just confusing to my students. I'm just too honest to pretend.

My editing colleague, I think, finds it more fascinating than I do. I think that Australians are more aware of American terminology, in general, than the other way around. It has a lot to do with American movies and books that have pervaded the world. We non-Americans can get tired of trying to be bilingual in English, for example, having to think, I'm speaking to an American, so I shouldn't use the word 'toilet'. For Americans, the terms we use are often novel, and fun (or in some cases offensive, like toilet, thongs, rubbers [that all Aussie kids take to school], and skivvies), but not something they have to learn in order to make themselves understood or learn in order to understand the movies they watch or books they read.

Well, this started as a fun post and turned a bit serious on me. Can I finish, therefore, with something a bit lighter?

This comes from here:

In business in Britain, to table something means to bring it TO the table for discussion. In the USA it means to put it aside. I was in a meeting when an American suggested tabling a topic - and a British colleague opened a whole discussion around it. The outcome wasn't as planned. The American got annoyed with what he saw as English arrogance and someone who deliberately did it to make him angry, while the Englishman was bemused at the lack of interest and hostility around the table.